Quick LOTRO review/comparison with other MMOs.

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Quick LOTRO review/comparison with other MMOs.

Postby Anaya » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:24 pm

I think I get why you like it. It's very, very different from DDO - and none of you has ever played Everquest II.

The good stuff: Graphics are nice. Not awesome (because we've seen those Age of Conan screenshots, and Gothic 3, and Oblivion...), but the grass is really nice, and the world doesn't look empty like it does in EQ2. Facial expressions are great. Different starting storylines, and storylines that have a real effect on the world (like when Bree burns down, transporting you into a different instance after completing the quest), very awesome. I also loved how Sauron's Eye was damaging you when a Nazgul looks at you. Also good: interesting character concepts with Loremaster and Captain.


The bad stuff: I don't even know where to start. The game seems to be a ripoff of EQ2 gameplay, DDO animations/models (sadly this isn't true for combat animations) and a model artist who has watched too much Wallace&Gromit. Previously I wouldn't have believed it is possible to watch too much Wallace&Gromit, but looking at the male elfs' faces.... oh my. The loot system sucks, and this is one of the reasons I left Everquest II: Everyone loots the same. Quest rewards are always the same. There is exactly one sort of "best" equipment for a class at a given level, and everyone is using that. Every guardian starts with a hatchet and a shield, every minstrel wears this silly hat, every Loremaster starts with the same staff. Since the questrewards are predetermined, I doubt that'll ever change in high levels.

Speaking of everyone looking the same, that's not the worst. Everyone also has the same stats, there is little to no choice to influence the various awesome sounding stats. The only possible way to "influence" them is to get quest rewards - in form of virtues, traits and loot. Since there is no random factor at all, there is no choice here either. Everyone gets the same equipment in the end.

The combat system sucks. This one is really bad. I sit there stupidly mashing buttons - the only challenge is that sometimes, I can unlock special buttons by mashing other buttons first. Wow. Since in-combat-regeneration is a joke, so is "morale" or whatever the blue bar was - My wife got to level 9 really fast, and still couldn't get a downtime for morale regeneration, despite trying really hard.

Crafting is a joke. You pay a silly amount of money and material, click a button, and get a result. No risk/reward, just a very uncleverly disguised way to draw money out of the game in an early stage. I assume if you're doing it often enough, you gain some sort of skills or whatnot. Really exciting.

Storylines: The beginnings of the Halfling and the Dwarf storylines were cool, the Human was okay. The Elves didn't touch me at all - following the character running around in panic from locked gate to locked gate wasn't very exciting. The final confrontation between the big enemy and a signature Middle Earth character was extremely disappointing. Yeah, I get it, the Developers want to show us "hey, look, this is middle-earth, so we have to rescue this poor level 1 character from the evil Nazgul by sending a whole company of elven rangers in". The Elf storyline is downright silly in that regard.


This short review is based on a night's playtime where I got a few characters to level 3 while my wife got one to 10 - since max level is 60, I think, a sixth of the game is a good indication how it'll turn out in the high end game.



Drawing comparisons:


Open World/Closed World: This is of course very different from DDO where everything interesting happens in small predefined areas. However, it has the same problems as EQ2, Ryzom, DaoC - it takes an eternity to get from one point to the next. Yes, there's horses later, and stables which instateleport you around, but these are few, and horses only speed up even greater distances. EQ 2 was so big that it took a group of friends up to 20 minutes to gather somewhere - despite there being teleportation and quick travel abilities.
The only onlinegame that has managed to solve this to some satisfaction is City of Heroes, where every character gets one out of four travel powers at early midlevel - Flight, Superspeed, Jump and Teleportation. The maps are also medium sized and very alive, so travelling is only a chore in the beginning of the game, after that, it remains highly enjoyable.
Unfortunately, with huge areas also come huge loading times. Imagine you want to RP with someone, but he says he's near Mordor while you are in Bree - after half an hour, you're both probably somewhere in the middle.


Combat system: The combat system is a cheap copy of EQ 2, where the different icons actually do something. It's exactly the same, only more clear - they even stole the Heroic Opportunity system from EQ 2. The Heroic Opportunity system allows a character to start a Heroic Opportunity, which has to be completed by several other classes executnig specific attacks and skills to gain a helpful bonus effect. I won't get into more details why I don't like it, I only played EQ 2 for half a year, and the combat system was one of the reasons.
A good point-click-and-wait system is the one of City of Heroes. It's basically the same targetting, mash buttons, win, but there is a lot of dynamic - enemies flying around, and you'll rarely stand still. Ryzom has an excellent combat system where you can design your own attacks.


Character Individuality: EQ2, WoW and LotR have the same problem: There is none. Every human minstrel will look the same at a given level in LotR, same as every Paladin in EQ2 wore the same armor, used the same weapon and had the same skills. There is no individuality like in NeverwinterNights or DDO. CoH doesn't have this problem, because your powers are set at character creation - the individuality comes from the appearance (CoH's character/avatar creation system is the best I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot). Ryzom faces a similar problem, because in Ryzom, you can gain skills infinitely by practicing them - meaning in the end game, everyone is a master magician/fighter/crafter/harvester, but the way to there is pretty individual.


Quests/Instances: The instances in LotR are nicely done, but DDO wins here big time. EQ2, Ryzom and WoW have much more cookie cutter quests which consists of killing x amount of species y more than two thirds of the time, sometimes with story attached. CoH has interesting instances - every quest happens inside an instanced building/cave, which is usually randomly generated, and full of monsters and enemies at your leisure, who usually just stand around until they're beaten up though. The storylines in CoH are cool, the quests themselves lack a lot of depth.


Crafting: There is only one serious contender for a good crafting system, and that's Ryzom. EQ2 requires you to fight an imaginary battle against the product, using skills to boost quality and avoid faults. LotR is a buy-and-click-feast. Ryzom has a system where you buy a recipe, and the materials you use determine the quality and stats of the item. If "Leather Sandals" require three pieces of leather and one piece of twine, you are free to mix and match too - one bristling boar skin gives a bit resistance against fire, while two elephant hides add durability to the shoes. This is how crafting should be - interesting, rewarding and interactive.



Roleplaying Abilities:

EQ2: Very few. Open world, no real interesting quests, no character individuality - after level 20 or 30, a dark elf paladin plays exactly the same as a human, halfling or ogre paladin. RP Server only in english.

WoW: Even less. Open cartoonish world, cookie-cutter quests, no individuality at all. RP Server.

Ryzom: Open world you can hide in, unique characters. Various visible equipment due to highly interesting crafting system. Gamemasters regularly run RP Events. Very few players. Nonclassic, unique world makes it difficult to integrate yourself in.

CoH: Superheroes at their best. Myriads of possibilities to design costume give a lot of individual appearance (which is, for a chance, visibile from far away - CoH is the only game where you can easily identify people without having names toggled on). RP server. Limited to RP because we're all Heroes (or Villains). :) Lots of Emotes.

LotR: Lots of Emotes. No character individuality. Open world, very pretty locations. Very nice naming advice at character creation. Possibility for RP Server.

DDO: Very individual characters, very different builds, different equipment. Ugly base models unless they're female. Hectic quests don't allow for much time. No RP Server. Quests require teamplay.


Seriously, LotR is not the game for you. Check out http://www.everquest2.com (we might have one trial key left), Ryzom (http://www.ryzom.com) - which is free by now and sadly underpopulated, City of Heroes (http://www.coh.com) which currently offers a free trial.

For pure online roleplaying, I'd personally stick to IRC channels or PBeMs. Also worth to check out is Armageddon MUD, which I don't know if it is still active.

But LotR? This one is, quite honestly, crap.
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Postby Lommy » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:52 pm

Well over all i can second that. As i played some EQ2 again lately i can say something more about that aspect.

Someone told me he wants more dynamics in the game, interacting with the city, acting as cityguard etc. I didnt see anything about that in LoTRo. Even the guilds seem as useless as in DDO. Honestly, if you want to interact with your city, go to EQ2. You can gain faction for the different cities, to get the right to live there, you can gain faction to the different groups in the citys, who provide you certain titels, house items and armour. So if you like walk through the city as Captian Lirandel the Vampire Slayer, in the armour of the guards and play a cityguard, feel free.

Guilds earn status by the doings of their members, as the individual earns status for his/her own aswell. Everytime you reach a new step with your or your guild's status, you gain new favors, like beautiful but for fighting worthless dresses, bigger houses you can rent, better horses, nice items for your house, titles etc. at least you have so many titles you can wear every day of the year another combination.

Guilds are more than a funny tag below your name and a common channel to communicate. For eg. renting rooms bigger than the 1 room standart village inn room are only available, if you are in a reknown guild. You have tools, like a automatic ingame guild mailing list, if you want to inform everyone in the guild, a guild banking account, growing with the guild's reputation, with different settings for the different ranks of your guildmembers, 12 possible ranks in your guild, you can name yourself. You can give every rank a multitude of rights in the guild, from wearing the guild tag, over administrative rights to allowing only several ranks to purchase those items you can get if you are in a reknown guild. Lately they invented guild capes, so you can now wear a cape in your guilds colour and with the symbol. As you got to purchase the desired combitantion, every guild has its unique cloak. In EQ" a guild is not only a tag, its a powerful tool with huge rp potential.
And additional you can define certain chat channels with name and password, like alliance channels to reach the members of anotherguild at once. So everyone who has the channelname and pwd can take part.

Meanwhile you got 3 cities to start from, depending on your race and alignement. At least in the 2 main cities you start after your survival training on the refugee isles in race specific quarters, where you can get some race quests. Another city in the desert and several groups within the zones provide you with possible allies. But some of them dislike you, if you work for their enemies -> you got to choose.

Fresh air questing is nice, and i have to admit im missing it in DDO, but my few hours in EQ2 and LOTRO thought me instantly, why i hate open zones:

1. you are sitting on a nice beach, rping, having fun.. but all 5 minutes the super evil bossmonster spawns and trys to eat you again and again and again... Well in EQ2 monsters that are 10 level below you wont attack you anymore, but what if you want to integrate some lower level chars? or if you want to rp quest a bit? either you damn your higlevels to one hit kill *grey* mobs, or you expose your lowlevels to be one hit killed (EQ2 goes up to lvl 70 atm). Well they invented some time ago a mentoring system, where you are downscaled on the level of the person you are mentoring, providing extra xp bonus to the mentored, but you are still quite allmighty compared to the skills you really had at that point. But hey, big RP oppurtunity: Im your big and mighty mentor! obey me! *harrrr* ;) but serously, its a nice RP tool. At least, its annoying clearing the RP site all 5 minutes. Yes you can go in extrem lowlevel zones, to the beautiful waterfall with a unicorn passing by from time to time.... like 20 others too, not counted the newbs doing their quests there.

2. You travel for hours. i think worst case one hour from your house to a destination somewhere, if you have all teleporters, and you know where the griffon-, cloud-, horse-, boatstations are AND you got a 40% or higher speed horse for the ways between AND most mobs are *grey*, means not aggro. Ah well, and you should know the way. So hey, want to join us questing in bonemire? yes sure.. but im in MajDul... i can be there in about half an hour (without getting supplies!!).... oh well, i got to go in an hour... (a teamspeak server is for planning matters more than handy, if not neccessary, as a druid or wizard might speed up connections with teleport magics)

3. You are clearing patiently annoying mobs to get a resource or boss/questmonster. As you are nearlly done, fighting with the last one, the EQ2 aequivalent of a Lycan Avenger (Draconis Extinctor, Konzil or other so called big raid guilds) comes up the way, spottes the mob/resource and kills/takes it. Yeyy... great.... cheer... IDIOT! hmmm? didnt see you... you were fighting with something else... oh i wanted to help you, so it does not kill you. you should thank me (yes happend to me once... the named one was not aggro btw). If i would get grey hair, everytime that happend to me, i would not have any hair anymore. Thats the main reason why i love DDO so much: it is much more relaxed, cause all those little aggression forceing things, they placed to make their pvp more attractive dont exist. even the behavior of the players is more friendly, less challenge. you can compare like that: lycan avengers are simply idiots, not able to hold a weapon its a really annoying guild, isnt it? idiots in eq2 means mob/spawn stealing, arrogant, leaving you die in order to get the mob on their own afterwards, influenceing your fight, like cc breaking to kill you indirect, short, asocial *censored* You may say hey its an EQ2 porblem. No it is not. As i tried to get enough resources to craft yesterday, it happend to me more than once and i was even more annoyed as in eq2, cause resources are even more rare. (yes, this is my favorite topic of annoyance ;) *cooling down again* )

well..

EQ2
*+* quite good character appeareance customization, at least far better than LOTRO, huge world with nice details, world is devided in zones to avoid too much lag, many RP possibilities, Guild is important, meanwhile quite nice quest and storylines, even not only kill quests, many emotes, housing, crafting (even if it is quite boring as you *fight* with your product. very time intesive, but at least you got some possibilities to influence your product), travel home 1/hour spell, possibility to change alignement/betray your city, huge amount on banking/bagslots, and possibility to store stuff in boxes in your house (every tier provides bigger backpacks/strongboxes beginning with 4/8 slots up to 24/32 atm), brokersystem (you see who is selling, either you take it, or you haggle with the owner, risking someone else buys it), funny world events with special items and quests, thousands of different quests

*-* World appears quite *empty* as brushwood, floorplants, grass amd other decorative elements are very rare, or you have to own a VERY good PC, quests tend to be like kill x of y and to let you run from one end of the world to another.. several times, laggy, point-klick-wait fighting with enemies neatly standing before you, waiting to get their hit, no real individual class development, best equipment for a certain level looks the same depending on the class, loot system (either first comes first serves, autoroll or leader gives you the loot, so those who complain in DDO about gems would prolly get nothing at all), really bad customerservice (if you wait half an hour for an answer, you are really lucky), aggressive players

LOTRO
*+* beautiful landscape, queststories, emotes, mimik, interesting crafter professions

*-* LOTR cutscenes (its like: look, its lotr, really), boring material intensive craftsystem, tons of non stacking bodyloot while bagspace appears huge (compared to DDO) but limited, not seeing possibilities to upgrade, quests mean at least kill everything on the way towards and back, at this time only expensive quick travel opportunities, boring fighting system, several details just copied/inspired fom EQ2, world not divided in subzones -> i see LAAAAAG, and i think many of the EQ2 disadvantages will occur here aswell, dull guild system

DDO
*+* Compact world, everything is quickly to reach, instanced quest zones, mostly without respawns -> no spawncamping/stealing and once cleared you can happyly RP for houres, not too big leveldifference, good character customisation in appeareance and stats, you are an individual, armoursuits (you dont look like a patchwork with green arms, pink top, yellow trousers, purple boots and blue gloves, cause those items are the best you can get for you), looting system (even if you got gems, at least you GOT gems, thats better than nothing), dungeonmaster and an absolutely relaxed atmosphere

*-* small world, doing mostly the same quests for loot (well same as in EQ2 doing the same instances over and over again for loot), no housing and crafting yet, RP questing mostly limited to 6 or 12 persons, dull guild system, no real fresh air questing, small amount on quests

I will stay with DDO and would rather go back to EQ2 than change to LOTRO :)
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Postby Lirandel » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:12 am

First off thank you for this post. As this is in the spirit of what the Black Thorn stands for.
And what I mean by this is that its a community focused on both online gaming but primarily on RP.

I will take these advices under consideration and watch for them as I test the game further.
It is in all our interests to find a game that suits us all both for gaming and RP!

Suffice to say, when AOC comes out we need reviews like these! So we can see what the trend in the community is. Again thank you for the reviews and your opinions. they are very much appreciated! *Huggles*.

Yours

L
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Postby Haelewulf » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:33 pm

First post!

Seems from reading some other posts that one or two of you are also familiar with CoH and CoV; that's my only previous MMO experience, but I figured, hey, why not write something briefly highlighting one or two of similarities between the CoX series and LOTRO, especially as we're in pre-order land!

First off, as has been pointed out in other threads, the level of cosmetic character customization is disappointingly poor, much as it was in NWN 2. Not quite that bad, mercifully, but still closer to it than it than one would have hoped. Having come from the fantastic character creation tool in CoX, this was a big disappointment to me.

Having said that, the varied equipment that can be found does make a difference to your look, and after your face is hidden under a helm or a hood, it really becomes something of a moot point.

The combat system is very familiar to me... again, I haven't played any other MMO's beyond CoX, but it seems like a fairly common one, and it's been implemented again because it works. I was initially disappointed with the animations for combat, but since I've started wielding two-handed weapons... mwahahahaha. Daddy like. :twisted:

One of the main things that I just love about LOTRO is the seamless world. If any of you have played Oblivion, LOTRO operates on very similar sorts of scales. The landscape is vast and beautiful, with the engine drawing for great distances without an enormous performance hit. It feels like Middle-earth should. That's a huge step up from the very contained areas of CoX. I also like how the fast travel of Stablemasters is implemented... I've got some great screenshots as a result!

However, the biggest improvement LOTRO has over CoX as a game, is the fact that despite LOTRO being an MMORPG, it has a decent and fairly compelling story running throughout it. CoX was all about the grind, and while it is nearly impossible to eliminate such elements from a game where XP levelling is involved, at least the quality and quantity of unique missions is vast in LOTRO. I bet most of you who play CoX got more than a little tired of seeing one of about 5 mission interiors for the umpteenth time!

The community is generally pretty fantastic in both, but far more so in LOTRO; heck, I met the Thorns there. The emotes and the atmosphere lend for some pretty fantastic roleplaying moments; I recall just last night I saw a fellow from Rohan being set upon by 4 Blackwolds, and as I leapt in and took them on, he cheered me! Great stuff. Likewise, on the evening of my invitation to the Company, Sayvara and I were in a fellowship that vanquished an elite warg that should have defeated us with ease. It was an accomplishment, and we were able to revel in it, heading back to a lovely tavern for a drink afterward, made all the more "real" by the phenomenally adaptable emote system. Also, the fact that my character's father can actually adopt him in-game adds yet another level to more in-depth roleplay.
We even nearly got in a barfight on one occasion! All in all, we've had some great opportunities for roleplaying and action, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

CoX does have a couple of features that will keep a part of my heart; flying and knockback/knockup are just some of the coolest things to play about with. But overall, I know which one I'll be subscribing to for life.

Sorry if I've waffled on somewhat... but such is my tendency.
And I'm not even sure if this is a welcome submission, but what the hey, it can always be deleted. :)

Peace!

H
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Postby Anaya » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:57 pm

It's all welcome. :)

My point still stands though: The things LOTRO has going for it are a set storyline (which is nicely executed by transporting you into various zones) which I don't like much for reasons I mentioned before. It also has quite nice facial animation, and the seamless world is beautiful (but laggy).
However, the system surrounding it simply is not good but a cheap and bad EQ2 ripoff (not even EQ ripoff, because they took a lot of things previously unique to EQ2 and just slapped on a different name, and messed them up. Heroic Opportunities! Bah.)

I'll truly be sad to see you all leave to LOTRO at the moment, but the few hours of playtesting have been enough for me.

And heartily agreed on the dynamic combat in CoH.... once or twice a year I get the itch and sign up for a trial account just for some fun fighting action. Throwing villains through the air, knocking them around and off high corners.... *sighs dreamily* Give me a combination of DDO's dungeons and CoH's dynamic combat, with Ryzom's crafting system, and... well.... LOTRO's seamless landscapes, if it has to be.... let's pool together and make a company? I'll claim responsibility for game mechanics. :D
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Postby Haelewulf » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:56 am

I reckon you might be onto a gem there, Anaya... sign me up! :D

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