Misunderstanding

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Misunderstanding

Postby Archibold » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Like many of us here I was very excited to try something new and jump in to world of COH.

I first read on this forums that some members of thorn are testing the game, and found it suitable. Quickly after others expressed wish to join. And few days after Superhero group was formed.

It was all , in a period of few days I was away from my gaming PC

Naturally as soon as I managed , i downloaded the game and jumped right in.

I quickly created a character , with not much concept , just a wish to join my friends and test the new enviroment. I was soprised to see not only the guild was formed but it was also already populated with almost all members of thorn. Ok, quite soprise the things moved so fast.

Anyway. I am came to the base. With a character totaly unprepared for what i found.
A character that was in no way with a concept for long term or anything like that.
I said, ok lets have some fun roleplay, freeform.

So I am standing there , talking with Jetflare (Adjanah if i am not mistaken) When he starts being aggresive towards my character , and looking for conflict ( reason was verbal teasing from my character ) - Than I am getting OOC mesages from Jetflare - requesting a IC fight. I tell him to leave it, because it is not important character, more of a gag. Which lead to Jetflare acusing me of modding.

I say again. This is a test character , made just for few minutes of fun roleplay.
But. It is also raising a question for me.
Is Jetflare the one that decided which character is suited for guild concept. And why
i was not informed , let alone asked for input on guild concept. I express this concern to Jetflare ...

But. Ok...i guess first come first served.

So i decide to roll with it.

But what happens now. I am creating a new character. And I am not automatically enrolled in the guild. But instead Wulfie is there to check my character concept , and how I roleplay him. And just after approving it - invites me to guild.


Very well

I understand that joining a RP Supergroup - as IC RP community should be approved IC.

But guild is also means of communication. Shared chat. And I am denied that.


So what does this all means?

Am I out of mercy? Or perhaps I am that problematic member , that you are not sure you wish to involve...

Why need to approve my actions? Is my few month long thorn membership enough?
Did I not prove to you that i am responsible enough? Dont you think that even if i make problematic character (again , the one i made was a test, a joke, when i didnt know what SG was about) dont you think i will leave SG , or kill off character if it is requested by guildmates ?

I dont know.
Maybe i am making a too big issue out of this. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding.
But it surely not very pleasant for me ...
"Reality is the part that refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." -- Phillip K. Dick
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Adjanah » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:37 pm

Alright...I could see this one coming from a mile off, so let's take it nice and easy and from the top...

Archibold wrote:Like many of us here I was very excited to try something new and jump in to world of COH.

I first read on this forums that some members of thorn are testing the game, and found it suitable. Quickly after others expressed wish to join. And few days after Superhero group was formed.

It was all , in a period of few days I was away from my gaming PC

Naturally as soon as I managed , i downloaded the game and jumped right in.

A simple matter of bad timing and nothing neither you or anyone can be blamed for...nothing wrong in that and no ill feelings towards you on that point.

I quickly created a character , with not much concept , just a wish to join my friends and test the new enviroment. I was soprised to see not only the guild was formed but it was also already populated with almost all members of thorn. Ok, quite soprise the things moved so fast.

Well, that's what most all of us did as well, so no trouble there either. But this is where the problem began, because by now most of us had been playing for about a week, and were pretty settled in...as was the guild as a concept. We did not post this on the forum, nobody thought of it because, well, didn't seem like anyone else was coming anyhow. This was wrong, and I appologize for that. We could have put up a small notice of where we were going and such.

Anyway. I am came to the base. With a character totaly unprepared for what i found.
A character that was in no way with a concept for long term or anything like that.
I said, ok lets have some fun roleplay, freeform.

So I am standing there , talking with Jetflare (Adjanah if i am not mistaken) When he starts being aggresive towards my character , and looking for conflict ( reason was verbal teasing from my character ) - Than I am getting OOC mesages from Jetflare - requesting a IC fight. I tell him to leave it, because it is not important character, more of a gag. Which lead to Jetflare acusing me of modding.

Let's not forget WHY Jetflare was being aggressive here. Let's take it from my point of view. I've played Jet for about a week at this point, I'm pretty settled in, and the character is more or less in place.

In comes mr. Perfect, into the "locked" and "hidden" base (think bat-cave), with no authority. I at this point have no way of knowing mr. Perfect is a joke character. Mr. Perfect waltzes up to Jetflare and starts ordering him around and calling him a peasant.

Now, if you'd been there from the start, you'd have known Jet does not take things like that lightly. Here we have a stranger, in Jet's home, ordering him around. Of course Jet gets pissed. And I did not REQUEST a fight. I tell you that this could quickly LEAD to a fight, and if you really want to go along with this. I have at this point STILL not been told I am dealing with a "joke" character, and simply continue playing my character.

And the thing I accused you for modding over was that you simply ignored and overruled my emotes, several times. That is what is called "god-modding". Jet attempted to grab this intruder by his collar, to which you replied by just pushing him away, offering no other counteraction than that, and leaving me somewhat thinking "what does this guy (that is you, the player) want from me here?". And yes, that made me pretty frustrated. You gave me nothing to play on, except for a very annoying intruder in my base.

I say again. This is a test character , made just for few minutes of fun roleplay.
But. It is also raising a question for me.
Is Jetflare the one that decided which character is suited for guild concept. And why
i was not informed , let alone asked for input on guild concept. I express this concern to Jetflare ...

But. Ok...i guess first come first served.

Uh, no you did not. Only after Jet finally managed to get this guy to leave the base did you tell me that he was a "joke character"....which left me going "what?!". Up until you left, I was convinced this was your actual character. This was the reason we went so far as to have Sack create a reason for him to even join. And no, you did not express concern as to the guild as a concept either. That was only on the forum some days later when you seem rather interested in having us all more or less start over.

But what happens now. I am creating a new character. And I am not automatically enrolled in the guild. But instead Wulfie is there to check my character concept , and how I roleplay him. And just after approving it - invites me to guild.

Very well

I understand that joining a RP Supergroup - as IC RP community should be approved IC.

But guild is also means of communication. Shared chat. And I am denied that.

Well, that is intended as a mere means of courtesy. We have at this point a fully envisioned guild, with a plotline behind it and people settled into their roles. So yes, we treat you as a "new member", meaning that we want to know if the character fits into what we've created before we let them in. That goes for anyone joining now, not just you. Just like in the Thorn.
[Edit] However, for the future, the lack of communication is removed by this lovely feature: We can make private chat channels. See here for our channel outside of the guild: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=332

So what does this all means?

Am I out of mercy? Or perhaps I am that problematic member , that you are not sure you wish to involve...

Why need to approve my actions? Is my few month long thorn membership enough?
Did I not prove to you that i am responsible enough? Dont you think that even if i make problematic character (again , the one i made was a test, a joke, when i didnt know what SG was about) dont you think i will leave SG , or kill off character if it is requested by guildmates ?

I dont know.
Maybe i am making a too big issue out of this. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding.
But it surely not very pleasant for me ...

In my opinion, it is a mix of several things that have led to all this, Arch.

First, the initial misunderstanding with mr. Perfect. WE should have informed you in a post on the forum, telling what kind of guild we had made. But on the other hand, YOU should have informed us about mr. Perfect being a joke character even before you came in. I had NO WAY of knowing until you finally told us. Remember, this is the internet. It can be very hard to pick up on jokes when all you have to communicate with is letters. I failed to see it. And I wish you had told me MUCH earlier, especially when you could see that I was getting frustrated. That should have been your cue to tell me "hey, this is just a joke character, don't worry about it...just looking around".

Second, if you wanted to get in so bad, you could just have told us. We're not morons here, you can talk to us. I for one did not consider inviting you again till we saw a character that fit the guild.

Third, yes I find you to be a potentially problematic member. You are hard to communicate with, and I usually get the feeling you're pretty bitter. This may be because of the language barrier, I do not know, but that is the feeling I get. If I am wrong, please tell me, because I honestly do not know.

In conclusion, let me tell you this: I do not call the shots in this guild. I am not in charge. I am, however, the most verbal of our officers, but none of my decisions are final without the consent of the other officers, or even the other members. I do not decide what kind of character you play, but I and the guild as a whole have a right to demand you play a character that fits in. For instance, the android you made seemed lovely, and I doubt anyone could see any problems in that joining.

And finally, I want an end to this whole thing. I did not join CoX to do more drama of this kind. The guild is not going to change it's concept, and it is up to you to decide whether you want in or not. If you want in, great, let's do that and get over this whole mess. If not, well, can't and won't stop you there either.
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Sayvara » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:53 pm

To cut everything short and explain a few matters about admittance into a clan/kinship/guild/supergroup: There is a standing rule within this wonderful group of people - of which everyone in this discussion is a part - that when we play together, each person's character/characters must be such that it/they does not in any serious way interrupt or disturb an established mode of play. Changes are allowed of course, after due deliberation with the others in the group.

In short this means that a character always joins a group IC.

/S
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Archibold » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:24 am

This really saddens me. The whole reason i started this post is that I felt something is not right. A misunderstanding , i hoped.

Now I see my feeling was right. You consider me a problematic , even to the point that you comment on my personality as bitter. I do not argue it. Lately life has dealt me a pair of bad cards, which made me bit bitter. I know this and am trying to work it out. I really apologize if this disturbed you in any way.

I myself do not see this guild as a group of characters i roleplay with...
I see you as a group of friends.

I really love and respect you all. I think you are great roleplayers, but also group of mature people that share the same interests, and are always there to support and help each other.

This is why branding me as problematic , hurts me so much more. And since nobody really came to my defense , i sense the feeling is mutual between you.


I decided to do only logical thing for me. I will silently fade away from the guild.

I thank you all for great times spent together , and wish you the best.


Archibold.
"Reality is the part that refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." -- Phillip K. Dick
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Adjanah » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:44 am

The choice is yours, Arch. Yes, I see you as problematic. But if you'd rather fade away than actively try to WORK on the problem, nobody here can stop you. I've had good times with you as Arch and I'm sure we could have worked things out with the android or some such. But yes, if you walk away that would indeed be the easy way out for all of us.

I wish you the best, all things considered.
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Archibold » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:12 am

Adjanah wrote:The choice is yours, Arch. Yes, I see you as problematic. But if you'd rather fade away than actively try to WORK on the problem, nobody here can stop you. I've had good times with you as Arch and I'm sure we could have worked things out with the android or some such. But yes, if you walk away that would indeed be the easy way out for all of us.

I wish you the best, all things considered.

Why such attitude Adjanah. Could you not just say, we are sad to see you leave or something nice at least ?

No, you had to stab the knife deeper.

"I wish you the best, all things considered" what is that about ? What did I ever do to you?

Did you know that I really joined the Thorns back than because i was intrigued by your drawings. When I finally meet you online, and stroke private conversation about your art - I was amazed how arrogantly , than , you talked to me. And this was our very first meeting.

This above is low blow , a low blow to somebody that liked this group. What ever I did to deserve it , i dont know.
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Adjanah » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:20 am

No, it means "I wish you the best, even if we've spent our last time together arguing"... :P Sorry if it came out the wrong way. Should probably have put a :) at the end.

See what I mean about things coming out the wrong way on the net? Sheesh...
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Lirandel » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:57 pm

Allright my two pieces of coppers. Arch. Whats done is done. A misunderstanding on BOTH your parts. Fading away from the guild is not the solution however. (As I see it) As you said it yourself, we have had some pretty nice times together. And I feel that you still want to be a part of this little community. And I know I speak on behalf of every Thorn when I say we wouldnt miss you for the world. :) Wheter its Lotro or Heroes or AOC. It doesnt matter. If you feel its the right thing to leave however, then as Adj I wish you the best and will miss your company. :cry: But. Can we not let by gones be by gones and move forward. Be mature here and give a handshake on it. Please? :(
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Sayvara » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:20 pm

What the old grumpy fart said: GROUPHUG! :)

No, seriously. Make up yer minds. Either break up permanently and decide you won't play with eachother, or put it aside and look forward.

/S
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Archibold » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:39 pm

Good
I admit it is my fault. Sometimes I am just to damn sensitive. Took all this all to personal I guess.

Let me do it like this.

First off Adjanah.

I am sorry. I really respect you. First off I think you are great artist. And great fun to roleplay with. I will put all this behind , and I am definitely bury the grudge right here.


Thorn in AOC

Anvil Ascent is a great idea. Not same as I envisioned it , but I was not there to put my vote - and there is really no sense for me to argue it. Let alone when it works as great as it does. I can assure you next character i make will be made to fit the concept as a glove ( which was my plan anyhow )

The future ?

At this point I am not to sure I will join you in COH. :?: Not because of all this hubbub , but
because I feel i need a break from all this online grind , and i did play COH before , so it is not to exciting for me.

My plan was to create and DM adventures in NWN - crafted for the guild. You can expect this to happen very soon. So dust off your D&D books and prepare for some game nights (who ever is interested) :P

My next MMO would be AOC , so i will join you again there (if i resist temptation of COH)

Again sorry , everyone ... and forgive my oversensitivity :?
"Reality is the part that refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." -- Phillip K. Dick
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Adjanah » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:54 pm

Good to hear it, Arch.

If you do choose to join us in CoH, do expect a talk though. We've both said some pretty rough things about each other, and we should not just ignore that when we meet. I can't just bury grudges, but I feel we can talk this whole thing out. As you yourself started the whole thread by saying, this all boils down to a misunderstanding and bad information. Differences in the way we speak and the way we roleplay.

I'm sorry it ever came to this, but I'm glad we can have a mature ending to it.

For now, whether you join us or not, I DO wish you the best (all things considered. ;)). You've shown me plenty of times you're a good player, but we've had some clashes play-wise. Let's try not to again.

Finally, I'll put out this call both to Arch and every single member of the Thorn: If you have a problem that alters your behavior, TELL US. It is MUCH MUCH easier for everyone to accept someone being grumpy if we've been told you're going through rough times. Happens to everyone. And do NOT be afraid to speak up. If you have a problem or a request, TELL us. DISCUSS if with us. Don't hold it back just because the officers have a snazzy icon next to their name. We're all just geeks here, trying to have fun together. And we've had too many hidden problems over members not wanting to bother anyone.
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Re: Misunderstanding

Postby Haelewulf » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:58 pm

Adjanah wrote:
Finally, I'll put out this call both to Arch and every single member of the Thorn: If you have a problem that alters your behavior, TELL US. It is MUCH MUCH easier for everyone to accept someone being grumpy if we've been told you're going through rough times. Happens to everyone. And do NOT be afraid to speak up. If you have a problem or a request, TELL us. DISCUSS if with us. Don't hold it back just because the officers have a snazzy icon next to their name. We're all just geeks here, trying to have fun together. And we've had too many hidden problems over members not wanting to bother anyone.



Hear, hear.
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