Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Events, event planning and evaluation.

Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Adjanah » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:00 am

Alright...after tonight's event, it is pretty obvious we need some standard rules of engagament for something like this. I will start with this suggestion, and then we discuss that till we reach something we can all agree on. Once that is done, consider this a RULE THAT WE WILL CONSISTENTLY USE AND ENFORCE. None of this is to keep anyone down. It is only in the interest of making the rp better and things flow better.

This isn't as much a suggestion for a rule, as it is a plead for a bit more courtesy towards each other.

We are all roleplayers. We all wanna be the big hero. And we all try to be that in very different ways. However, when in a group, and indeed in a BIG group like we were tonight, we need to give each other space. This is very very important.

When in pressed situations, make sure to do a brief analysis...if ten people are flinging emotes across the screen at the same time, nobody gets heard, and nothing gets read properly.

Do an effort to have the overview to know when to step down and let others have what I and others call "thunder"...limelight, scene-space, call it what you will. And try to gauge whether your emote adds to this scene, or just clutters up the chat. You may have a side-plot yourself you want to bring in, but do so at appropriate times, when it can be appreciated fully.

This goes out to all of us, and it is important that we ALL go by it. Step down from being the hero-of-the-hour, and let somebody else get that bad guy or pick that lock. Example: When entering a battle, you do not necesarrily have to start by trying to fire an arrow at the heart of the main villain. Storm-troopers die first in heroic combat, THEN you can try yourself against Darth Vader. Sure, it would be ever so cool if you COULD take out Darth at the start and be oh-so-uber, but it makes for lousy storytelling. ^^

Always remember: The point of the Thorn is to tell STORIES. NOT to "win". The GM may carry the heaviest load, but you, the player, can help immensely by not trying to grab it all for yourself. And even more importantly, this is not a punch at anyone in particular. This is just a good rule I try to go by myself, and which is in my opinion important to remember, but can quickly be forgotten.

Please discuss, pros and cons.
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby kellidir » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:38 am

I can understand the need to build up to a final confrontation. There are ways you can combat the skip to kill the leader thing. Add penalties for long range shooting, put someone between the player and the baddie or even have the boss being double stat'd. a high set to make him too hard to beat until the right time and then lower it when ready or even just don't expose them where they will be easily taken down.

However sometimes the mad charge for the leader isn't out of some hero play but is something that is basically the course of action that makes the most sense for that character at the given time.

In the scenario we played out, Kelli was facing the man responsible for her abduction, torture, wounding, attempted killing of kelli and defilement of her ... for the torture and killing of Tharynien in front of her eyes and for the kidnap and more of sayvara and an obvious move to kill sayvara. She had a lot of repressed emotions shes bottled up and she basically charged screaming.
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Adjanah » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:45 am

THAT of course is fair enough, Kelli. I was only using it as a good example of what I meant for another time. Or maybe the example wasn't so good, considering the personal feelings involved in this particular villain. ANYWHO! My point was more to not spam 4-line emotes EVERYBODY at once, and maybe step back for a bit and then step in later. ^^
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby kellidir » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:23 pm

wasn't meaning that in a defensive way. just using it as an example that while we may want people to avoid the heroics, IC has to be taken into account too. Basically I'm suggesting it be a suggestion not a rule :D
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Adjanah » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:34 pm

More like a plead, really. ^^
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Haelewulf » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:44 am

Perhaps it's sheer quantity that becomes an issue, not to mention impatience. :)
I know that particularly for fight scenes, I like to be fairly detailed... but unless it's a duel, I shall be cutting back drastically in future, since it just swamps the channel, and if we're truly honest, doesn't actually enhance the experience for anyone but me. *grins broadly*
Impatience-wise, I think we were jumping the gun quite badly several times, myself included, for which I apologize, since the GM then had to tell us to cool it, making things a bit disjointed. :) Another learning experience, I felt, on my part as much as anyone else's... and I think that the points raised are very valid.
I've started to try and not have Wulf comment on everything that he could... except when it would be a stretch IC to remain silent.
Casual conversation and banter is awesome, but not when 8 or so of us are all doing it at once. :D

You all may remember a sparring session that apparently happened out of nowhere as we walked out of Bree... that, I'm fairly sure, was the result of us being "reported" IC by an "older gentleman" who followed us out of Bree after we jumped the unfortunate Humph. He walked up and demanded to know who our commander was... I doubt anyone actually saw that, as it would have been lost in the clutter. I therefore addressed him IC, telling him he had best try to find us later, as it was a bad time... since after all, we already are known for including people, it would be a shame to tarnish that reputation. :)

Having said that, he then launched an attack (initiated sparring), which concluded as you saw. No harm done, he goes off as submissive as you could hope for, no hard feelings, ,Thorn reputation (and mine too :P) intact.

But because of the sheer volume of text, nobody had a damn clue why it had happened at all, which became obvious after a couple of rather pointed questions came my way... fairly asked, too, so I'm not upset. :) It probably broke immersion for several, for which I apologize. For those of you that emoted responses to the conflict, thanks for rolling with it as much as possible, particularly in light of y'all probably having no idea what was going on. :) Likewise, thanks for asking IC what the ruckus was about, Kelli... it hopefully repaired a bit of the damage. :)

All that to say I'll be doing much more "listening" in future... if we all tone things down just a tad I'm sure the difference would be dramatic. :)

Just my tuppence' worth. ;)
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Saerid » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:30 am

Hehe let's start rolling initiative and forming a queue. :mrgreen:
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Adjanah » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:28 pm

In my opinion, you should never have accepted that sparring session, Wulf. If that had been any kind of IC, the rest of us would NOT just have stood on the side going "what?". That guy would have been pounced by 6 Thorns and subdued quicker than you can say "baloney". But as the sparring system goes, none of us could do that, leaving us to just stand by and scratch our bums, while we SHOULD have been running down the road in our attempt to save Sayv. A bad call on your part, in my opinion...but we all make those, heavens I know that from experience. ^^

Plus, I do have a thing against people interferring with what is obviously an event...the guy walks into a throng of TEN people and start HACKING AWAY on one of them?? And then, when he is beaten, he bows and walks away?? Is he NUTS?? Both me and Adj were simply stunned, and I chose simply to ignore it had happened.

And you're right on the emotes and banter. The problem is of course non-existant when we are a small group. Hell, nobody should be forced to hold back at any time if at all possible. However...when we are as many as we were (which we won't be again in an event as combat-oriented as this one, if I have any say in it), common courtesty should be above all other things. Take it slow, let the GM breathe. It is not a race, and it is being done as smoothly as the GM can handle. It is not a competition of blurting out the first emote about "I CUT HIM DOWN!" and scoring a "point". Hopefully, the new [PLOT] rule can help with this as well, and as Saerid says, some sort of queue system. But frankly, I'd rather we simply avoided combat events of that size altogether. That many people calls fur rules, constraints, and WAITING TIME. And that breaks the immersion greatly for me, you all as well I am sure.
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Haelewulf » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:11 pm

*shrugs* Be that as it may. We've already had the discussion of emote fighting/sparring too many times as it is, so I made a call based on the fact that his kinship had already been involved in the event, and, if I'm not mistaken, Adj, you were the one talking to his underling. *chuckles* Sure, interfering in an obvious event may be seen by some as "bad mannered", but surely it's a bit ridiculous to assume that everyone else breaks character when a pack of mercenaries walks by with a prisoner, just because the players might not appreciate extra input? We're in an RP world, not an instance, after all.

As far as the guy taking a swing... he first tried to ask what was going on, like any good cop. *chuckles* And we all know that not every character is going to back down just because he's facing insurmountable odds. *winks*

As far as the sparring went... considering it took less time from start to finish then about two moves apiece from the average Thorn emote-duel, I considered it merely a way of deciding who came out on top, not an actual minute and a bit of mortal combat. Consider the fellow smoothly disarmed, having forced Wulf to muster a speedy defense. And as for his bow and then just leaving... he obviously hadn't planned on losing. *chuckles* At least he left without further hassle.

Sure, the sparring system is far from perfect, and ideally it should work on the basis that if you're in a fellowship, one who hits you becomes attack-able for all. But it doesn't work that way, just as when I type "/e spins, batting aside his opponent's blade with his sword before burying his axe in his enemy's face.", Wulf still stands there like a numpty. *chuckles*

I had 9 seconds to make a call, and I made the best one I could. If we hadn't encouraged his kinship member and played along with him, then I would have ignored the challenge, since there would have been no decent IC reason not to. But if we're going to stage a public spectacle in Bree, then it's more than a little naive to imagine that we won't attract a few strays... and for a known RP'ing kinship, simply ignoring everyone that we haven't invited to be there isn't an option. *grins*

So! I've apologized for any trouble it might have caused, which was unfortunate... but I stand by my decision. :)
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Adjanah » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:07 am

Think you misunderstand me, Wulf...or I spelled it out badly. My problem wasn't his buddy that walked up to us and started asking questions. I was deliberately being extra rude to him since he gave off a taste of "this isn't over!", and so could spur some potential rp-hostility later on. However, the fellow that met us outside of Bree and decided to hack away at you seemed, to be honest and from an IC perspective, to be an utter nutter. Maybe you can elaborate a bit on just what the hell happened, because I honestly do not know. From where I stood, he entered RIGHT into the middle of 10 heaviliy armed people, asked for the boss, and then before even getting an answer he apparently tried to overcome you. Now, that in itself isn't so strange, I can come up with explanations for that. The problem about that is that it is pretty frustrating ( and STRANGE ) that none of the rest of us have any way of interferring whatsoever. A one-on-one battle is one thing, where people are expected to be audience...this was attacking one of our number, while we were geared for war, and together. But god's sake, no matter...done is done, and yes, it did go faster than even a single round of an emote battle (I loathe to think how that situation would even have turned out if it had been emoted. :P). It's him I'm annoyed at way more than you...seems utterly ridiculous from my point of view that he would even CONSIDER doing it in the first place. *shrugs*

HOWEVER...and this is where I had to coin the lovely word "WTF?!": You beat his scrawny ass, whereafter HE BOWS AND WALKS AWAY, none the wiser as to what is going on!?! What?! Explain it to me, I don't get it! Doesn't that seem MAD to any of you?! :D
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Haelewulf » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:01 am

*laughs uproariously* Shall we give him the benefit of the doubt and say that his kinship and character work on the basis of trial by combat?

He attacks, I whup him but don't cut his daft head off, he assumes that therefore I am a being of goodness and light, and those I'm with are similarly aligned...? :D

More importantly, he gets to live. *grins* Heck, if I'd been thrashed then told to get lost, I'd take the opportunity... well, probably.

*shrugs* Let's just hope such a scenario doesn't arise again... not that I think it will. *grins* Like so many others, now that we've seen it, we can take steps to avoid repeat performances.

We can, however, conclude with a reasonable degree of confidence that the gentleman in question has based his "character concept" and by extension his "RP'ing" around solving potential conflicts in a fairly neolithic fashion... hit it until it agrees/answers/buys the next round of drinks. :D

Til next time!

And at least I beat him. Dread to think what would have happened otherwise... :P
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby Archibold » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:46 am

Jeez , to much text to read at work ... and i didnt participate at event in question.

But here is a solution that works , funilly taken from D&D 1rst edition :)

We all roll initiative

Than we do emotes based on initiative turns

Everyone gets to do one emote per turn


-

Simple , but works
"Reality is the part that refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." -- Phillip K. Dick
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Re: Rule suggestion - "Thunder" - Discuss

Postby kellidir » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:47 am

Perhaps the most simple and easy and effective solution.
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