Tag your events: Roleplay or Storytelling

Events, event planning and evaluation.

Tag your events: Roleplay or Storytelling

Postby Sayvara » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:54 am

Sometimes cutscenes to the general narrative are needed... sometimes you want people to get fully creative and find odd and imaginative solutions to the problems you toss at them. So...

Tag your events so that people know how much freedom you give them in the event.

  • Storytelling is an event where you as a creator know the script from start 'til end. If you're going to be inflexible and godmode out any deviation, then you should tag your event as "Storytelling".
  • Roleplay is an event where you unleash the players and let them play out the story for ya. You set the scene and they play it.


/S
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Postby Archibold » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:29 am

And we had excelent examples in last week for this

Messenger arrives - Storytelling event

> Sayvara wanted to tell a definitive and important story here - Players were put into more passive mode , and set to enjoy the ride. Event conclusion was predetermined


Taking law into own hands - Roleplaying event

>Archibold made open and non scripted event - Players were put into a scene and took over from there. Event conclusion was not predetermined
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Postby Adjanah » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:56 am

On the point of Storytelling Events, 3 things are important to note:

1.
This type of event is meant to present players with an interesting story, but in a way that does not steamroll the players unnecesarrily.

These events are TOUGH to make, but very rewarding if they work. Keep this in mind, potential gm'ers.

In a storytelling event you (the GM) DO have godmodding powers, and players as well as you should know that beforehand. Note in the event what type of event it is. If you intend to do it d20-style, make it clear. If you are not interested in making it into a roll-fest, make it clear.

With power comes responsibility. Use it wisely.

2.
It is also up to the players that participate in such events to try and predict to some degree what kind of situation they're in. Is this a narrative plot-device where I should not interfere overtly, or am I free to go all gung-ho and leap into the fire?

It can be hard to predict, of course, but running a good event is just as much the responsibility of the players as it is the gm's. Be prepared to step back and let others have their thunder when needed.

If the gm suddenly tells you "you cannot do that", accept it, and if you have problems with it, try and save the argument for AFTER the event. Discussing these things during the event takes away valuable time and can kill the momentum and suspense.

3.
Storytelling events does NOT, I repeat, does NOT concern "winning". It is not a contest and nobody is interested in anyone taking undue power into their own hands.

It is most of all about the play between the characters and getting through the more or less predetermined story, and evolving/furthering plots. It is more a movie than it is D&D.
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Postby Lildarwen » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:22 am

I am not very fond of seeing a roleplay as either storytelling or free for players to act.

In fact a GM is a storyteller - always - he/she presents the surroundings, the environment, the world, weather, NPC and everything that makes an evening an outstanding event.

But s/he is not god - never. Yes - in some ways a GM steers the course of action. I am rolling dices secretly when I am a GM in my tabletop round - because I have killed too many players by 'mistake' - rolling in the open. Destroying their fun and the evening.

But what's with the players? They roll open - I have to accept when a player rolls a critical dice on my so beloved NPC, I created for a long storyline. It was my fault... when I bring up the NPC in a situation a player can attack him - then I have to count on hir death.

And telling a player 'you can't do that' (considering it is not an outright action nobody can do it) is just bad GM'ing. In fact - I love tabletop - because I 'have' to roll.

The warrior charges.... s/he uses an ability - I have to accept it. One of the group (another player) tries to stop hir - I have to accept it. But they both have to make a roll - we all know it.

My so beloved super villain has got into troubles - a player strikes him with a successfull hit... s/he is close to death... what can I do?

Nothing... either I do some deux et machina and give her a teleport-ring - or a wizard teleports in and out.... denying a player the chance to intervene is not storytelling ... it is simply bad GM'ing.

Just my 2 cents, folks. No offense meant.
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Postby Archibold » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:52 am

Lil , you must understand we are talking about managing live events in MMORPG. Which is unfortunately thousand miles away from PnP

Managing such events means looping and looping and looping around , trying to avoid and compensate all the shortcommings and limitations of MMO enviroment.

-

Let just assume that in "Messenger arrives" event , Kellidir got killed. How would we handle that?
Or let say we were swarmed by Tharlion's bandits. How would Sayvara determine outcome of that situation?

-

There was once a game made to marry PnP and ORPG - This game was Neverwinter Nights.
But this game was killed by its miserable sequel ( damn you Obsidian! )
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Postby Lildarwen » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:07 am

I remember a time Kellidir made a fantastic evening in SWG - we were sitting outside her bunker and just did a pen and paper rp online - with dice rolls and so on.

This is not as much work as it sounds. We all have experience in pen and paper - we all can roll online - and to transfer a character into a d20 system would not be that much of a work anyways.

I miss my pen and paper group :(
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Postby Sayvara » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:33 am

Ah... here we have a little clash in styles of roleplaying. Some people in the Thorns love their dice... others hate those numbered polygons.

This is something we will have to find a viable way of dealing with because we risk a bit of a conflict here between the Full Free-Form'ers and the Dice Rollers.

/S
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Postby Adjanah » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:10 am

What you have to understand here is that this is NOT an attempt to do D&D style pen-and-paper rp. You are talking about a whole other kind of event. Storytelling events after our formula are NOT about dice-rolls, making a lucky hit on this or that npc, or making sure you come out on top. These storytelling events are about furthering a story, a plot.

Look at it like this: Sayv comes up with a plot to have Sayv kidnapped, and thus spur the realisation of a chain of events that (hopefully) will lead to her eventual release. Now...IF we had done this dice-wise, you MIGHT have actually beaten Terlion, which wasn't exactly the plan.

Now, before you start screaming about chains and god-modding, let me again point out that while Sayv's event here wasn't pulled off as perfectly as it could have been, it was still a *plot* that had to roll. She HAD to get kidnapped. You COULDN'T win. See the difference? These occasional instances of "you can't do that" are about furthering a plot in order to make play for the future. It requires for the players to hold back a bit and not try to omfgpwn everything in sight.

Some may like these kinds of events. Some may not. For the future, they will tagged to let you know beforehand what kind of event we are talking about. That means if you don't like it, well, nobody is forcing you to attend. And if you want events that deal with dice-rolls and all of that, well, there is nothing holding you back from making such events yourself. Event-making is open for ALL members, it is not only the officers that make them.
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Postby Archibold » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:24 am

We all love our dice , and we all love PnP

But the truth , it just does not work any good in MMO. It might have worked better in SWG (pre NGE)
But to get it working in LOTRO needs hell lot of improvisation and pretending. Making D20 version of character might be kind of solution , but do we want to go that far?

Actually if you look , i made a post about GM'ing in MMOs

It is tricky subject. And sometime i just think we should just go on with the flow and except MMOs for what they are.

And for your ideas. Again , NWN was a perfect medium for this ... to bad the game got kicked aside
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Postby Sayvara » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:29 am

Archibold wrote:We all love our dice

Actually Archibold... not all love the d20's... not unconditionally, not all the time. I for one am one of those. There is a time and place for everything... and sometimes, I just don't want those dice anywhere near me.

/S
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Postby Archibold » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:44 am

Sayvara wrote:
Archibold wrote:We all love our dice

Actually Archibold... not all love the d20's... not unconditionally, not all the time. I for one am one of those. There is a time and place for everything... and sometimes, I just don't want those dice anywhere near me.

/S


What! And i thought you have pair of golden D20's :cry:
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Postby Sayvara » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:56 am

Archibold wrote:
Sayvara wrote:
Archibold wrote:We all love our dice

Actually Archibold... not all love the d20's... not unconditionally, not all the time. I for one am one of those. There is a time and place for everything... and sometimes, I just don't want those dice anywhere near me.

/S


What! And i thought you have pair of golden D20's :cry:

I love my dice Archi... sometimes. And sometimes I don't. :)

/S
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Postby Lildarwen » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:27 pm

Hmmm I still disagree alot.

Events don't have to have a certain outcome. If I myself want a certain outcome then I have to try to be smarter than the players - and of course as GM I can .... bend some things to my advantage ;)

But saying outright: this and this has to happen at all costs is not my style of GM'ing.

Lets say we would have beaten Tarlion... and escaped with Kellidir and Sayvara... why not just bend something? We have to camp for example - Sayv takes one of the guardshifts.... the next guard does not get woken up by her... because she was kidnapped (for example - and this is a bit hasty and has rabbit holes an elephant fit in).

But all things I am involved personally as a player I should be able to change - even the odds are greatly to my disadvantage.

But when I have just to play a static role - then I do not roleplaying - I do acting. And in this case I want to know what I have to do and when I have it to do.

Just my 2 coppers...
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Postby Lildarwen » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:28 pm

P.S.: I hate my dices - normally I never roll more than 11 or 12 on a D20 - when I roll a natural 20 (as player - as GM I don't have that problem :( ) I am one of those who starts to dance on the table like a crazy prairie dog :P
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Postby Adjanah » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:08 pm

Lildarwen wrote:P.S.: I hate my dices - normally I never roll more than 11 or 12 on a D20 - when I roll a natural 20 (as player - as GM I don't have that problem :( ) I am one of those who starts to dance on the table like a crazy prairie dog :P

*giggles* ^^

In any case, the events will be tagged for the future. So, any events that go by standards not to one's liking should be easier to avoid. ^^

Plus, the whole Sayv thing seems to have been something of a test. Now, I wasn't there, but from what I hear, a lot of things could have been handled better, both player and gm-wise. We're still only human, can't have all events be amazing works of art. I do however know that I have had sessions following these "rules" that have been ASTOUNDING fun, and where I did not feel I was beng led around on a leash.

And I want the option of making more things like that. So...we will have events that do things like this, and we will have events that do NOT do things like this. It's all up for grabs, people. If you have a good idea, make it happen. Help bring some life to the Kinship.

Just keep in mind that when you participate in an event, you are expected to follow the stated rules of the event. The gm-for-the-day has most likely put a lot of work in it in order to tell a story after his/her liking, and the least we can do as participants is follow those rules out of respect, no matter if it is our favorite way of playing or not. If I choose to participate in a dice-heavy event, you can be damn assured I will be tossing dice, even if it is not my favorite thing.
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